[TheList] Volunteer sirens

Mon Feb 28 13:11:43 AEDT 2022

Hi Shane,

Noise control is 24 hours.. there's no time or decibel limits.

Seems surprising he came to have a chat at that level, but obviously without hearing what he heard, it's hard to comment on.  I would (rarely) talk to the occupants, if I'd had a complaint and wasn't going to issue a direction. Soemtimes I would if I felt it could possibly avoid a revisit, or if I received multiple calls but never found noise over several visits, so the alleged offending address was aware of the complaint. I say alleged, because sometimes we get sent to an address, but it's actually coming from somewhere else.  

There's no point in the person asking for a decibel reading - we won't do it.  What people usually fail to understand when it's explained to them, is that discretion is almost always a good thing. Say a level was set at 100dB, this would apply day and night.. I'm more lenient during the day for obvious reasons.  Also a concrete truck laying down a pad outside your bedroom window at 6am might not cross a noise level... but it sure as hell is annoying.  And yes, I've attended this before haha. 

NCOs are usually security, yes.  Councils have their own NCOs that will deal with commercial noise, THEY have decibel readers, but only attend and use for ongoing constant noise... IE generators, construction noise etc.  We always attend first though.  If the NCO feels its needed, they can request police attendance - ie offenders are known gang members with attitude, safety etc.  But they ARE required if a notice has been served and a second visit has revealed noise is still present.  He doesn't need to see facts from either party, it's his, and only his, decision to make on if it's excessive.  Obviously I can't comment on the specifics for your job, but off the bat I would assume bass was the issue - it travels further than people think. 

How it works is  an NCO.visits and determines if it's excessive. If it isn't, nothing happens.  If it is, a direction is served which effectively says all noise must stop immediately and continue to be quiet for 72 hours, I'll ask for ID (you're not required to give it) and issue the notice on the address.  If you refuse to comply, or a second visit shows it's loud, police are required for a seisure.  This doesn't have to be the same type of noise. The notice covers ANY noise. 
Usually at this point people will try verbally trespassing you, or start getting antsy because noone seems to respect security officers, but they forget it's a law we're enforcing..  it's not actually optional. 

The NCO then enters and seizes the equipment. Police are there to make sure everything stays legal, and any obstruction of me doing my job can be dealt with. Yes, that means it's pointless to go trying tog et out of it with the police, I'm the one doing the seizing.  Just cos it may have been quiet when I showed up with the police, doesn't mean you get out of it. At the time of the second assessment, I determined it was too loud and we go off that time) I'll write down serial numbers (note that equipment seized doesn't have to be making the noise at the time, it just has to be capable of it) and ask for your ID. You'd be silly not to give the ID to me at that point, as if you don't, you'll never get your equipment back. If, instead of a seizure, or it's not practical, we might issue a non-compliance note and you need to provide ID for this... this is likely going to turn into a fine, and it needs to be issued to someone) Not all councils do non-compliance notes, and our job is to stop the excessive noise, so disabling/seizing needs to be the main action. 

If it's noise and noones home, we can break into the property and seize/disable the noise.  Police must be present (actually had to do this, the second to last day of working in the Waikato... fire alarm going off in someones house allegedly since the day before) This notice/fine gets sent to the house owner from council records. 

People think its unfair that it's subjective, however it's the fairest way. People could complain to the council (not the security company) but the notice/seizure stands until the expiry date and time on the notice, or council lift it and they'll advise as such.  If you want to know if you're being too loud, we won't help you with that.. what's acceptable at 10pm, won't be at 1am etc.  If you want to test for yourself, go for a walk along the fence lines... if it's Audible, then turn it down, or risk us coming to visit.  We're usually not all assholes... but we need to do our thing, and always get people bitching at us because it's not fair... One thing that can help, if you're partying, is letting the neighbours know... and be reasonable.. a family member dying doesn't give you the right to have 20 people over for drinks in and outside marque (had that) or a garage party in a tin garage (these aren't soundproof...) with the doors wide open (had that too) or your childs second birthday party at 2am (had that also, just cos your kid sleeps through it doesn't mean the neighbours do).   Oh! and 9/10 times the offending people will say 'we know who complained' and are wrong.  Sometimes we see the address of who complained, and it's often not the people next door.   You're not being picked on because we're different skin colours (had that many times)... the worst people I had to deal with were teenage parties, gang members who don't give a shit about anyone else, or middle aged white people.. because somehow the law doesn't apply to them... or they 'know someone in the council that will get this lifted' ... 

Noiseys were always my favourite jobs to do when I was on patrols... You met some real characters (good and bad) 

Richard  
----------------------
Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse my brevity, punctuation and spelling. 

On 28 February 2022 12:25:19 pm NZDT, Shane Vickers <senavick2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>This one is interesting... stirred my interest to comment.
>
>Many years a go, We had a stereo in the back ground and were able to talk normally around
>it. Noise Control turned up which was surprising in itself as this was 2pm not 2am.
>
>I knew the neighbour concerned and asked he (the NCO) test with a sound meter at her boundary and if
>any issues could be proved I would be very happy to comply.  No such meter was produced and I was
>informed he would return with police if the compliant was raised again..
>
>My father in law at the time was a screw at Parry prison and in uniform (he didn't suffer fools to well) and was disappointed I didn't invite him to the door to talk to the security office passing as a NCO as you term it...
>
>There was no case to answer too this time but I didn't want the police in attendants either... They sure had
>better things to do. I understand he has a job to do but was not prepared to see facts either..
>I could hear him knocking at the door from another floor in the house so it was not loud.....
>
>Nice to read discretion is used, as it wasn't on this instance...
>
>Noise control for a siren that is turned on to save lives... that makes no sense at all.
>I hear the Silverdale siren from time to time wonder why its pulsed several times hope the call is not too
>serious...
>Gets me up to fire up comms if it goes off multipliable times.
>
>They installed a monster of a siren with voice for Tsunami alert not far from me.. If we get woken by that
>then they really have reason to call Noise Control LOL it is incredibly loud...
>
>Shane.. going back into passive reading mode now.
>
>------ Original Message ------
>From: "DogSecurity - Richard" <richard at dogsecurity.co.nz>
>To: thelist at radiowiki.org.nz
>Sent: 28/02/2022 11:35:07 am
>Subject: Re: [TheList] Volunteer sirens
>
>> Until recently I'd been doing noise control for many many years.. we were always told that we wouldn't be sent to jobs for that. The noise is measured by highly scientific tools called Left ear and Right ear (not by decibel measuring equipment - who knows where the idea came from that we'd use those, it isn't practical for starters) and so usually by time we arrived, the noise would have stopped.. and in any case we use our discretion. However it's subjective... in my eyes a bar playing loud music at 2am is no different to a tractor outside someones House at 2am. The tractor isn't as loud as the bass, they're two different types of noise... but to me both would still get a direction issued. Others would see that, well... you chose to live near a bar/farm.. that's your issue.
>> 
>> Local councils follow the RMA law, there's no law saying sirens are exempt or not exempt. There's no requirement for us as NCOs to follow how the councils themselves specifically want to do things either. Huntly and Ngaruawahia weren't silenced at night. I'm temporarily in Rangiora and it is.
>> Richard
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse my brevity, punctuation and spelling.
>> 
>> 
>> On 28 February 2022 10:19:50 am NZDT, Brendan Sheehy <shiters_r_us at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Some still activate some are set on a delay timer.
>>> 
>>> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> From: TheList <thelist-bounces at radiowiki.org.nz> on behalf of Radio Engineering <radio.restorations at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 10:15:48 AM
>>> To:thelist at radiowiki.org.nz <thelist at radiowiki.org.nz>
>>> Subject: [TheList] Volunteer sirens
>>> 
>>> Just a question that came up in discussion a few days ago.
>>> It was suggested that volunteer fire sirens around NZ are now silenced at night due to local council noise bylaws.
>>> It has been ten years since I lived in a small rural town which had a volunteer station so I don't know if their siren still goes off at night or not.
>>> What's the situation? Is this correct?
>>> 
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