[TheList] Fire UHF incident ground communications

Thu Nov 23 19:31:09 AEDT 2017

As I recall the couldn't use CTCSS or DCS as their Selcall systems couldn't work..

On 23/11/2017 9:07:34 p.m., DogSecurity - Richard <richard at dogsecurity.co.nz> wrote:
Like CTCSS, SDR is probably a bit overwhelming for some scanner users, if they can use it, then they're smart enough enough to find tx frequencies etc.

RadioScanner - After coming up 4 years in the industry, I definitely agree security through obscurity isn't going to work. It just weeds out the ones without knowledge. Much like car alarms don't stop the car getting stolen, just stops opportunist thieves.
Also the cost of going P25 (and probably encrypted is astronomical for the police (and therefore also fire)) Nationwide makes it a pipe dream. Some of the sites are solar only, I've heard, and P25 is power hungry. So we're pretty safe for now :D

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On 23 November 2017 7:57:23 PM NZDT, Mike Bailey <tahiini at gmail.com> wrote:
...or about two minutes with SDR#. CTCSS is a solution to spurious signals from other sites or countries, not to intruders.

On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 at 19:48 DogSecurity - Richard <richard at dogsecurity.co.nz [mailto:richard at dogsecurity.co.nz]> wrote:

I partly agree, for most people with scanners, in my experience haven't even heard of CTCSS, so as long as it's not published on say RadioWiki and the likes, would prevent most people doing that.

Those that know about CTCSS obviously would likely be able to work out what tone is in use, and therefore probably be able to also work out the transmit frequency with a lot of patience :)

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On 23 November 2017 7:35:31 PM NZDT, Radio Scanner <rs157950 at gmail.com [mailto:rs157950 at gmail.com]> wrote:
Definitely poor design. CTCSS tones would obviously help with spurious signals triggering the repeater but it wouldnt stop dickheads with a Baofeng for long at all. Atleast the radio can still be used at the same time its being mucked with.

On 23/11/2017 1:03 p.m., Brendan Sheehy wrote:

We use to get it bad down south untill tx frequency was changed on one of the vtg channels.

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From: TheList <thelist-bounces at radiowiki.org.nz> [mailto:thelist-bounces at radiowiki.org.nz] on behalf of DogSecurity - Richard <richard at dogsecurity.co.nz> [mailto:richard at dogsecurity.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:50:21 AM
To: thelist at radiowiki.org.nz [mailto:thelist at radiowiki.org.nz]
Subject: Re: [TheList] Fire UHF incident ground communications

Just on the skip issue you mentioned.. The problem with the skip/ducting on ESA (I'd put money on that being the offender, rather than UHF) is that the police (and fire as they're in bed together) don't use CTCSS tones, so the repeater receiver naturally opens up to everything.

Unfortunately that's poor initial design on Police part, to add tones after the fact basically can't happen logistically... every RT and repeater needs to be reprogrammed at the same time to avoid downtime. Doing it could be done slowly, add the tones to RT TX first, then add the tone to the RX of the repeater. Obviously you'd have to see if there's a tone on the Aussie TX and not reuse that here (that'd really be RSMs domain) Would also help with that clown down Levin ways with his crappy Baofeng or whatever ham radio that he shouldn't have, transmitting on the police channels.

Over the last few years it seems to be less of an issue on Ham1/Waikato Rural at least as more Aussie emergency services are going UHF/digital etc. But also remember 76megs is more susceptible to noise than VHF/UHF frequencies. Also helping the fact of people moving away from ESA/A-band is Tait is the only manufacturer making that equipment anymore.

Richard
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On 23 November 2017 10:33:16 AM NZDT, Shane Vickers <senavick2 at gmail.com> [mailto:senavick2 at gmail.com] wrote:
ESC band in this topic,  The original poster mentioned Area 22. Can I confirm where this is?  No point getting excited if they are rolling out in Wellington!

Auckland is using F Band high to assist with skip issues from Aussie many moons ago..

I am assuming Auckland is Area 22 as they have UHF systems in play..   I am could be so wrong.....

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Mike Bailey <tahiini at gmail.com [mailto:tahiini at gmail.com]> wrote:

My apologies - no regular operational channels. Yes some HF and airband stuff is listed, but good on ya if you've heard anything operational on it... ever.

On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 at 09:36 Chris H <radiowiki at archnetnz.com [mailto:radiowiki at archnetnz.com]> wrote:

When you say no police frequencies at all I beg to differ on that statement: 
Here is just one search I did for Police - like page 2 of 5 or something. 
Previous Next
Licence ID  [Descending] Licence No  [Descending] Licensee  [Descending] Channel  [Descending] Ref.Freq. (MHz)  [Descending] Location  [Descending] Grid Reference  [Descending] Licence Type  [Descending] Status
19203 96116 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX45 119.100000 TAURANGA POLICE STATION BD37 795250 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
23895 97565 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX45 119.100000 MT CARGILL CE17 101239 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
23895 97565 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ARX52 131.300000 MT CARGILL CE17 101239 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
24086 125062 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX45 119.100000 SUGARLOAF BX24 717721 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
28430 92397 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX45 119.100000 NEW PLYMOUTH POLICE STATION BH29 927760 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
28430 92397 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX5 118.100000 NEW PLYMOUTH POLICE STATION BH29 927760 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
28430 92397 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ARX52 131.300000 NEW PLYMOUTH POLICE STATION BH29 927760 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
28430 92397 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX41 119.000000 NEW PLYMOUTH POLICE STATION BH29 927760 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
29066 92399 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX45 119.100000 STRATFORD POLICE STATION BJ30 105448 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
29066 92399 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ARX52 131.300000 STRATFORD POLICE STATION BJ30 105448 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
29066 92399 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX5 118.100000 STRATFORD POLICE STATION BJ30 105448 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
29066 92399 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX41 119.000000 STRATFORD POLICE STATION BJ30 105448 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
30121 126153 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX45 119.100000 MAUNU MT AX30 113444 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
30121 126153 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ARX52 131.300000 MAUNU MT AX30 113444 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
31640 92401 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ARX52 131.300000 HAWERA POLICE STATION BK30 103172 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
31640 92401 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX45 119.100000 HAWERA POLICE STATION BK30 103172 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
31640 92401 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX5 118.100000 HAWERA POLICE STATION BK30 103172 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
31640 92401 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ACX41 119.000000 HAWERA POLICE STATION BK30 103172 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
32224 135095 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ARX52 131.300000 PAPAROA BT19 636042 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
32311 97621 NEW ZEALAND POLICE ARX52 131.300000 AUCKLAND BA32 569204 Aero Base (Off Route) Current
Previous Next
On 23/11/2017 09:07 AM, Mike Bailey wrote:
RSM work in mysterious ways. You'll notice they don't list any Police frequencies at all. I wonder if this falls under the same sort of category - that its RSM approved (lets face it, Fire wouldn't go rogue on frequencies), and its just not published for privacy and security of communications?

On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 at 08:57 Grant Carroll < [mailto:grant.carroll at xtra.co.nz]grant.carroll at xtra.co.nz [mailto:grant.carroll at xtra.co.nz]> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm a bit confused as well.!
On the RSM website the frequencies assigned to Fire and Emergency New Zealand between 492.21875MHz and 497.19375MHz are shown as "Land Mobile - mobile transmit" and the repeater frequencies don't start until 498.800MHz. So how are the lower frequencies being used as "portable frequencies" for incident ground communications?
Cheers.
Grunter1.

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