[TheList] Squawking Tones on Police Channel & High Frequency Tone on Channel

Mon Mar 21 09:57:41 AEDT 2022

No they don't talk with Police directly.. their control room may, but I 
understood that the decision was made that ONLY Police have Police 
radios on the P25 network.   From this, I don't believe any Community 
Patrols will have them in the future, and that the CHCH control room 
won't have one.

I would assume that if Police sell their CHCH P25 repeater equipment to 
the NGCC, that AvSec (they're a government department aren't they?  I 
don't remember) will move to P25, given there's a P25 UHF repeater at 
the Airport.

Obviously take what I say with a grain of salt though, I don't really 
have any inside knowledge.

Darryl - Yes, Corrections are encrypted, they're on CapPlus or CapMax, I 
forget which it is.  I was told, when we did the Tongariro site, that 
the current LTR sites were all moving across.. LTR is an old system - of 
course, that was several years ago, back then NGCC was just a twinkle in 
someones eye, and I still feel that they'll not go across to P25 given 
how much they've spent moving several prisons over to DMR, and that they 
want site only dcoverage... It's certainly possible that the prisoner 
transport vehicles would go over to P25.

On 21/03/2022 10:33 am, Radio Engineering wrote:
> Community patrol are encrypted? What the heck for? They do a good job, 
> but their coms is mostly run of the mill stuff - nothing that requires 
> secrecy.
> I presume they have a handheld P25 radio to communicate with police as 
> well?
>
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2022, 21:27 Darryl Healy, <darryl0768healy at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>     I assume corrections DMR will obviously be encrypted also?
>
>     For those that don't know Chch INTL aviation security are on the
>     Orion CON+ network and it works well for them having regional wide
>     coverage and a repeater setup at the airport itself.
>
>     Also all of chch intl is on this network including airport crash
>     fire which aren't encrypted along with all the airline, servicing
>     and cleaning comms.
>
>     There is alot of interesting stuff on the Orion network including
>     community patrol which have just gone encrypted.
>
>     The network caters for hundreds of companies from florists,
>     couriers, truck companies to alot of council work and then some...
>
>     On Sun, 20 Mar 2022, 14:18 DogSec - Richard,
>     <richard at dogsecurity.co.nz> wrote:
>
>         Hard to say...  but most likely that will be the case, yes
>         you'll no longer hear police.
>
>         The Government is bringing in NGCC (Next Gen Critical
>         Communications) network which will be P25, Cellular and IP
>         based telecommunications setup, similar to Australia, America,
>         etc.  The ESA/UHF analog networks will be shut off.
>         It will have Police, FENZ, St John, WFA, and possibly CivDef
>         etc.  It's possible that some or all of it will be encrypted,
>         that will be up to each orgainization. I'd imagine that it
>         will follow along with the current Auckland, Wellington,
>         Wairarapa and Canterbury setups where Police are encrypted. 
>         But that could change as happened in Victoria on the MMR/RMR
>         networks (basically speaking MMR is UHF, RMR is VHF)  where
>         Ambulance were unencryped, but that's changed and is now
>         encrypted..  Encryption is done on the subscriber unit - P25
>         supports encryption.
>
>         The current P25 network I understand to be owned by the
>         Police, this new network will not be.  I would assume that the
>         Police will sell their equipment so they no longer have to
>         worry about the repeater networks falling over, that would
>         become the NGCCs problem, but they would keep their current
>         radio techs as they still need people on the ground looking
>         after vehicles/handhelds... I will also assume that NGCC won't
>         have any interest in dealing with subscriber units as it's a
>         lot to manage - they'll have enough on their plates to deal
>         with, running a national trunking repeater network. I also
>         assume that Police will want to keep their codeplugs close to
>         their chest. FENZ/Police have their own radio techs, so it'd
>         be business as usual for them, except no more repeater work -
>         they're multi talented in that they do radio, telephony and IT
>         stuff.  St John use Vital for repeaters, but contract Tait to
>         subcontract radios, each Civil Defence area seems to do their
>         own thing for radio work.  I don't know much about WFA other
>         than they use a couple of talkgroups on the Wellington P25
>         network.  Others that could join would be government
>         departments... Aviation Security, MBIE (Immigration etc)   I
>         will assume that Corrections will remain as they are with
>         their current LTR setups that are moving over to DMR as they
>         really need prison specific coverage, and keep the prisoner
>         transport vehicles on Vital.
>
>
>
>
>         On 20/03/2022 1:24 pm, Tim Devaney wrote:
>>         Are we not going to be able to receive the police soon ??
>>
>>         On Sun, Mar 20, 2022, 12:09 DogSec - Richard
>>         <richard at dogsecurity.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>             Hi BJ,
>>
>>             Years ago someone did a write-up about it on here, but
>>             basically it's a form of SCADA for monitoring sites
>>             remotely.  Some sites are often not easy to get to and
>>             may have access issues such as being helicopter access
>>             only. These sites have quite large battery banks, as
>>             mains power may be flaky.  The SCADA allows for inputs
>>             and outputs to be monitored remotely.  They are often
>>             polled at specific times, which is why sometimes you may
>>             hear the tones underneath voice comms.  If the controller
>>             polls and doesn't get a response back then it will retry
>>             X amount of times (if programmed) then assumes the site
>>             is dead, and alerts get generated.  A variety of things
>>             can be monitored. Often these are only 'analog' inputs so
>>             you only get very specific details..  You could see
>>             things like
>>
>>             Battery Bank A is 100/75/50/25% (maybe not even in that
>>             much detail)
>>
>>             Generator On/Off
>>
>>             Entry Door OPEN/CLOSED
>>
>>             Alarm ACTIVATED/DEACTIVATED/IN ALARM
>>
>>             SOLAR ON/OFF (IE is there voltage coming into the system
>>             on the Solar lines)
>>
>>             REPEATER POWER ON/OFF  (some repeaters can have an output
>>             that's activated when it's in a certain state)  As Daryl
>>             mentioned, it would be a (probably unreliable) way of
>>             determining if a repeater is working or not.
>>
>>             With the NGCC being implemented, a lot of this will
>>             eventually become redundant as most things like SCADA
>>             would be converted to IP based, and digital radio is also
>>             IP based, meaning a lot of this could be sent over a text
>>             message over the radio network.  I assume P25, but DMR
>>             will prioritize voice over messaging.
>>
>>             As for the screeching, lots of factors could be causing
>>             that.  I-band links shouldn't really be used for
>>             monitoring as they're only point-to-point or
>>             point-to-multipoint links meaning you really need to be
>>             in line of the path for it to be received. I'd recommend
>>             use the VHF/UHF frequencies.  Once again, with things
>>             turning to digital soon, they'll probably be redundant
>>             with the links will be done over IP.
>>
>>             Cheers,
>>
>>             Richard
>>
>>             On 20/03/2022 11:23 am, Darryl Healy wrote:
>>>             Those tones are something to do with the linking with
>>>             all the VTGs.
>>>
>>>             They happen every 4 hours at midnight and so on.
>>>
>>>             Someone will no doubt give a more technical explanation
>>>             of them soon.
>>>
>>>             On Sun, 20 Mar 2022, 11:01 BJ, <bjcuizon151 at gmail.com>
>>>             wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Hi all,
>>>
>>>                 Was in Dunedin recently and tuned in to police
>>>                 comms. Anyone know what those squawking tones on
>>>                 some police channels are? It doesn't sound like fire
>>>                 selcall but more like a really short (~1 sec) burst
>>>                 of what sort of sounds like a part of the old
>>>                 dial-up handshake.
>>>
>>>                 Also, was listening to firecom and ambo thru the
>>>                 I-band link in Chch and on some link channels there
>>>                 is a really high pitched tone that is present when
>>>                 someone keys up. It can only be heard on a radio
>>>                 with no audio filtering/DSP as my Tait seems to
>>>                 cancel it out. Does anyone have an idea what this is
>>>                 as well?
>>>
>>>                 Thanks in advance,
>>>                 BJ
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